If anyone has got it working under W7 bit, I'll be interested in hearing about it. This is using MC5. I know about your long history of probs with the Digi, we've talked about it before.
I have no experience with Win 7 64 so I cannot vouch for that but, I can't remember if you've tried all the legacy firewire driver bit and if you've got the right firewire cards, I'm sure you have because you've looked into that.
Did I ever suggest the bit about looking at the power harness? The unit can seem to work in almost respects but still have issues. When I last opened mine one of the plugs was almost hanging off and yet the unit lit up and seemed to work properly.
Except I was getting all manner of sync issues like you and eventually MC hung at intialising audio on startup. A quick clean and reseat solved this completely. Thanks for the info. I do know its a driver issue as I've tried an older driver and managed to get the to light but the audio has been distorted or it causes the system to crash. Yes, i do have right Firewire cards. Believe it or not, I did change the harness too. I had too because it wouldn't switch on and I discovered that this was a known problem makes a clicking sound on power-up but then switches off , so I managed to source one and change it.
That's all working fine. I have MC6 but I can't use it for all the reasons you've listed. I don't understand how Avid won't support their own hardware but do support third party hardware. With MC5. And to be perfectly honest, I'm not moving to MC6 any time soon either, like a many others I would imagine.
I agree there was real problems with the drivers as Avid began to merge their audio 'engines' between MC and ProTools. Even then there can be some funny behaviour if I enable the controller settings. I think it's all to do with driver incompatibility and increasing firewire traffic protocol problems hence why Avid moved to 4k buffer cards - I'm still using TI Ads Pyro 2k cards.
However the problem for you is that driver is 32bit XP only i think even though there were 64 bit flamethrower drivers since Vista. Now you may be right that it is just an insoluable driver issue for Win 7 64, which Avid will never sort now. But if you'll forgive me you can't be sure until you completely eliminate every variable. I'm sure you have but just to go over it again, if it was me and I never give up until I get stuff working I'd approach it like this if you can spare the time:.
Different sync cable. Reseat that harness, it doesn't matter if you replaced it they still had the same problem - a design flaw. This is the only way you can eliminate any device configuration problems. I know it's awful lot to do just to confirm what you already knew: the digidriver was never fully sorted, but it's probably the only full answer.
I'm going to load Win 7 64 on a spare drive for my setup soon to see so I'll report back to tell if I ever get it working. I know it's no consolation to you and is not practical to go back to XP but it does work. Thanks for all the info and all the help. Much appreciated. I know, for example, that the CLK output works but in general I can listen to the output and hear the clock signal.
You're right in your second point - get a clean install. I have a multi-boot machine so I can add a partition to that - I have a separate one for MC6. It's just matter of finding the time as at the moment I'm in the middle of a project but yes definitely worth a shot.
I've always run the Mojo on the in-built firewire port as I know it's on a separate bus but the has got its own dedicated firewire card. I got the specs out of Dell regarding the busses in the machine and who was on what to make sure everything was as separate as possible. I can certainly put it on the card to see if it makes a difference. I have an Rack so I don't have standalone mode, I'm afraid. You know how it is, you kind of work around it eventually.
Right now, I've got the Mojo disconnected so that I can work on the audo - green lit - once this is done, I'll switch to the Mojo so that I can do the colour correction on the client monitor.
Right now, I'm actually using Audition CS2 which, if you're really careful can blue screen but then CS2 wasn't really for W7 bit either , you can have it open with MC.
You set Audition to release the driver when you're not playing the audio. You can imagine the convience of that because sometimes you just have to switch back to MC. Audition can import the video too but I don't use it for that. Really, we should have Protools and MC open on the same machine especially since they are both owned by Avid. I can see why people are attracted to the Adobe package - it's ability to integrate all the software is the key.
I look with envy when I see people go from a clip in the timeline automatically to AE or Audition or something and back again after processing. I know this has been discussed many times before but you do feel it when you need several apps to talk to each other.
I would be very interested in your W7 tests. Thanks for trying it out. I understand your predicament - let's face it editing is what it's about not messing with pcs.
I've done some further digging, no install of W7 yet I do have MC5 with Win 7 Pro on a modern i5 HP laptop though it's not really any better performer than the XW except for transcoding and I probably won't get around to it for a while. But the reason Avid moved to the 4K fifo buffer firewire cards seems to be about how modern multicore procs rob resources from the firewire bandwidth using DNA hardware.
Data seems to overflow that buffer. Secondly I had a little play and found that the Avid audio driver that came with ProTools 8. I don't know why it didn't work before. But all drivers irrespective of their level of functionality will hang Avid upon exit if audio audio gain part of controller is set.
Works fine but you have to change the setting to close normally. Both MC5 and 5. This is why I have stuck with XP. People have told me here how mcuh better they will perform in W7, but I'm not seeing that with the i5 laptop at all. I've never understood exactly how MC uses ram though. Encoding and decoding. I never run out of ram with 3. Like you I am more of an all round filmaker these days, making my own documentaries and offering less and less facility work with a modest captital spend spread over production and post.
But as an editor in Broadcast TV for many years I have built and supervised networked Avid installations and Avid workflows and you'd be amazed at some of the London UK facilities and what they use. A lot of users on these boards are prosummers, you can see that by the number of views on particular threads, absolutely nothing wrong with that, or they run facilities but most professional freelance editors don't care about technical stuff and are still working on ancient Avid setups in some top facilities, they just want it to work.
I know of quite a few Symphony Classic Nitris setups in London doing topline HD conforming with the internet blaring AE open and a system that has not been serviced for some time, whilst working day in day out. What Digi have actually done, though, is slightly different from simply launching a hardware controller for their existing LE Pro Tools setups, the Digi and M Box. The Digi , as it's called, is not a replacement: it costs significantly more, and will continue to be manufactured.
The new system, rather, provides a welcome extra tier in the Digi hierarchy, between the extremely affordable M Box and and the multi-thousand-pound HD systems, as well as adding the option of dedicated hands-on controllability to the project end of Digi's range.
Where the allowed and bit recording at Even more appeal is added to by the fact that its hardware unit also works in stand-alone mode, without a computer connection, as a digital mixer. Indeed, it probably more than makes up for the fact that the control surface can't be configured to work as a generic controller with other software or hardware, as some of its MIDI controller competitors can.
The version of Pro Tools LE supplied with the system at the time of writing was v5. Thus, some of what the software is capable of will be down to the abilities of your computer.
We'll provide a quick overview here. The version of Pro Tools LE bundled with Digi has been upgraded to support 32 audio tracks, and also includes an impressive plug-in package — shown is IK's Sampletank SE software sound module.
PTLE is a well-specified, elegant application presented in two main screens: the Edit screen, where MIDI and audio tracks are shown as, respectively, piano-roll events and graphic waveforms; and the Mixer screen. Track editing, including pretty comprehensive audio editing, is available within the Editor window, and the Mixer is a flexible, customisable and fully automatable affair.
A standard set of Digi plug-ins provides dynamics, reverb, delays and modulation effects, plus EQs. Third-party developers support the RTAS format very well. On the audio side, the track-count limit was 24 until a recent update pushed it up to LE is missing some of the sync options of the full Pro Tools software, amongst other omissions; some features it doesn't have are of particular relevance to those who work to picture.
Look and feel for the new version are identical to earlier versions, but there are operational enhancements. Aside from the increased number of audio tracks, these include a 'trim' plug-in for extra gain when it's needed , a second set of delay effects with tempo sync, and a MIDI event editor, LE's only MIDI editor apart from the piano-roll display in the Edit window.
The event editor is a simple, clear list of MIDI events — notes, controllers, program changes and so on. It's utilitarian in appearance, but allows those who like the numerical approach to work with MIDI in that way. The main thing 'missing' now is a score editor, which may be on the cards for a future update. Some critics have wondered why Digi still limit the number of tracks available in PTLE, when most other audio sequencers offer practically unlimited MIDI and audio tracks — the practical limitation being your computer, of course.
Digi say that they limit tracks because they like to guarantee systems to run properly on all 'qualified' computers, and they feel that 32 tracks is perfect for LE. This is a fair response, and we probably wouldn't use more than 32 at the moment, but if you're recording a band with a drummer, for example, you can eat up lots of tracks just recording main parts and a couple of overdubs each.
It might well be useful to have the freedom, especially during early stages of a project, of as many audio tracks as your computer can deliver. Of course, surround is supported by the full professional version of Pro Tools that comes with TDM systems. Aside from the standard Digi plug-ins mentioned above, comes with extra plug-ins you'd normally have to buy separately. A set of third-party plug-ins is headed up by Waves' Renaissance EQ in two-, four- and six-band variations , Renaissance Compressor, and Renaissance Reverberator.
These Waves devices are great, with the reverb especially being most welcome. Native Instruments contribute the excellent, authentic Pro 52 virtual analogue synth. If you want more, there are upgrade paths for all the supplied plug-ins, in some cases to full third-party bundles such as the Waves Gold bundle of audio tools.
The only one we were a little disappointed with was Sampletank SE, which sounds good but is limited. Still, it provides a handful of useful drum kits and other instruments. Switching the into stand-alone mode turns it into an assignable desk with a useful feature set. Each of the eight inputs is equipped with a fader, pan pot, mute and solo buttons, onboard three-band EQ with swept mid , a send each to the built-in reverb and delay effects processors, two further sends routed to outputs 7 and 8 for external effects or basic submixing for alternative headphone mixes, for example , and an onboard compressor for each of the four mic-amp-equipped inputs.
Should you use the two extra sends for effects processing, returns would occupy some of the eight inputs. A basic snapshot memory has 24 slots for storing stand-alone settings, but these cannot be accessed via MIDI. They're really only for saving particular setups, for manual recall, and can't be chained to produce an automated mix.
The onboard effects are basic but good quality; the delay maxes out at ms, and the reverb is limited to three basic algorithms and a compact parameter set. Compressors offer control over ratio, attack and release, with soft- and hard-knee options, and they work rather well.
We wish they could be used within Pro Tools! Although it's a pity that the ADAT inputs cannot be used alongside the analogue inputs in stand-alone mode it's one or the other in this mode , the ADAT outs can be used. Any audio routed through the inputs can be automatically passed to the ADAT output, on a track-to-track basis, pre-fader and pre-effects.
Thus the desk could be used in a basic live situation with an ADAT-equipped tape or hard-disk multitrack. The 's hardware resembles a compact digital mixer, featuring the familiar faders, knobs and buttons, plus a set of displays, which make the necessary assignability of the controls much easier to deal with. On the rear panel are the connections that in other digital recording systems including the would reside on a rackmount recording interface or breakout box and possibly on a card inside the computer.
Aside from the control surface aspect, the big departure for the 's hardware side is that there is no longer any need for an interface card inside the computer, as the FireWire connection is used for high-speed, bi-directional MIDI, audio and control data transfer. The 's mic amps, which are apparently the same as those on Digidesign's recent pro eight-way preamp, the Pre, sound even better than the pretty decent ones on the Guitars can be plugged into these inputs, which each have a gain control and switchable low-pass filter, without the need for a preamp.
In addition to those eight inputs, there's a useful pair of Alt Source phono inputs, which take the place of inputs 7 and 8 if used, and allow audio inputs from CD players or cassette decks, for example, to be brought into a Session. The hardware is thus basically an input desk that will potentially allow you to record up to 18 tracks at once.
All the necessary FireWire drivers and the core Digidesign extensions were put where required automatically. All that was needed was to make the FireWire connection, power up the hardware and boot the software. Technically, there should be an authorisation routine, but it seems that if the software finds a valid authorisation on your computer for another version of PTLE we're users , it's happy.
The bundled plug-ins do need to be authorised. Note that PTLE v5. There are also two FireWire ports, and though you may read suggestions to the contrary, neither can be used for the connection of a FireWire hard drive. If your computer has just a single FireWire port, and you want to use a FireWire hard drive, the best solution is to connect the drive to your computer and the hardware to the drive's 'pass through' port. Although there are two FireWire ports, the cannot be used in a chain between a computer and a FireWire hard drive.
Plug-in dynamics are alternatively available if the controller is being used with LE and there are onboard dynamics on inputs in stand-alone mode — very useful. Monitoring is simply implemented, though quite well thought-out.
There are separate controls for the main stereo monitor output and the headphone socket, with a Mono switch for checking mono compatibility of the stereo mix. The main monitor can also be muted, leaving the headphones operational. Curiously, the Alt Source stereo phono input can also be routed to the monitor and headphone output. This could be useful in a live situation, with the in stand-alone mode to route pre-set music over the house PA, for example.
In the studio, with a simple external mixer you could create a separate monitor mix for overdubbing musicians and feed it back into the Alt Source inputs, leaving the main mix untouched.
The system doesn't offer a 'monitor at source' option, to get around the latency inherent in computer-based audio systems. Luckily, PTLE has settings that can help. The hardware buffer parameter offers five levels, between 64 samples virtually undetectable latency and samples a handy slapback echo. The level you can achieve depends on CPU speed, how many simultaneous tracks you want to record and how many plug-ins you're using.
An alternative to adjusting the hardware buffer is enabling Low Latency Monitoring from the Operations menu. This makes latency almost undetectable, even when recording many inputs at once. However, no effects can be applied to tracks being recorded with Low Latency Monitoring, and it only works with inputs routed directly to audio tracks: audio can't pass through an Aux track first as you would to add processing during recording.
The current situation regarding the addressing of hardware by other software is as yet unclear. It can be set up to be the audio output for Apple's Sound Manager, making it compatible with any app that has Sound Manager support, and Digidesign's WaveDriver allows a similar option for Windows. The main feature of the front panel is the bank of eight motorised faders, which are quiet, smooth, inch touch-sensitive units made by ALPS.
Their space-age, silvery moulded caps initially look a bit on the plasticky side, but they're actually very pleasing to the fingertip. As you would expect, the faders are easily assignable, on a bank system, to control the 32 audio tracks of PTLE, plus as many MIDI and Aux tracks as you have, eight at a time.
Also in this main central section above the faders are corresponding Mute and Solo buttons, each with built-in status lamp like all the buttons.
On the review unit, a couple of these were duller than the rest. A bit higher again are eight 'Sel' buttons, used to select channels for editing, arm them for recording, and so on, and eight rotary encoders, each with a green LED ring above as a value readout. The LED rings can also be switched to provide channel output metering, so although it initially looks as though you don't get level metering, in fact you can choose to have it.
It's pretty effective and responsive too, though there is no three-colour system — only the last LED in the ring flashes red if an overload is occurring. A slight niggle is that, depending on where you're sitting in relation to the , the rotaries can obscure parts of the LED rings.
Lining up exactly with the channel 'strips' are eight very clear LCD 'scribble-strips', one per channel, offering labels abbreviated from LE track names. The rotary encoders can be assigned to control a variety of parameters, including pan, aux send levels for PTLE's five sends per channel A-E , and the parameters of plug-ins, via named assignment buttons. Values for these parameters show in the scribble-strip displays momentarily as the parameter is altered, and can also be 'fixed' there with a key-press combination if you need to examine them more closely.
Parameters that might be more suited to fader control than rotary control, such as send levels, can even be assigned to the faders instead, via a 'Flip' button. Several different parameter 'Views' help you keep tabs on your mix. The Views are divided into two types: Console Views show the status of one parameter pan, send or insert for all eight channels in a bank and assigns each rotary encoder and channel select button to their own mixer channel, while Channel Views give you access to the status of several parameters for a single selected channel.
For example, to see the status of eight channels of pan positions, you select the Pan Console View. The LED rings now show pan position for these channels. Choosing the Insert Console View makes the scribble strips display the abbreviated name of any processors assigned to insert A of each of the current eight channels. To see what's assigned to inserts B to D, you use the lettered buttons to the left.
Pressing any channel select button then makes the parameters of the assigned insert processor currently showing for that channel appear in the displays, where they're available for editing with the rotaries.
Pressing, for example, the Insert button, followed by Channel 1's select button, causes the names of all the insert processors inserts A-E currently assigned to Channel 1 to be shown across the first five scribble strips.
Again, you can get to them for editing by pressing the channel Sel button that lines up with the desired processor. You can see from this that it's possible to get the same end result via two different routes, but the types of overview given are different and both useful, and the method of assignability used is clear and easy to comprehend. Any time there are too many labels or parameters for the eight scribble-strips, page left and right keys can scroll through the spillover.
The two displays in the top-right corner of the unit help by identifying what is being shown in the scribble-strips — showing, for example, 'LR Pan' if you're in Pan View.
You can get straight to the end of a Song by using the Shift 'modifier' key more later plus Fast Forward. We've seen one or two mentions on Digi forums of people finding the transport keys 'sticky', but the review unit showed no evidence of this. Dedicated controls above the transport activate loop playback and loop recording modes, and access QuickPunch punch-in mode.
Once a selection is made, you press Stop and Play again to hear it loop. Incidentally, an option for owners who would like to stick with the but get some dedicated hands-on control would be to add the CM Labs Motormix.
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